Caitlyn wrote a book!

[00:00:00] Jill Brook: Hello, fellow POTS patients, and beautiful people who care about POTS patients. I'm Jill Brook, your horizontal host, and today we have an episode of the POTS Diaries with Caitlyn who wrote a book. Caitlyn, thank you so much for joining us today. Caitlyn: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to share my story. Jill Brook: We're excited to hear it. So before we get into like all the triumphant stuff you've done, let's just learn like a bit of basics about you. Like where are you, how old are you? What's your deal? Caitlyn: So I am 28 years old, almost 29. I live outside of Philadelphia and I am currently a fourth grade teacher. I've been a fourth grade teacher for the past seven, almost eight years. I have a 14 month old son, who keeps me very busy. But he is incredible. My husband and I are so lucky to have him. And yeah, I have a really supportive husband who works in the medical field, so I feel very lucky to have him around. And [00:01:00] he's known me for a really long time. We met in high school, so I feel like I've lived a lot of lives with him, but having him in my journey has been really important, so yeah. Jill Brook: So what would he say are your personality traits? Caitlyn: He would probably say that I care a little bit too much, to a fault, that I love doing things for people and that I'm a good listener. And probably that I advocate for myself, which has been a learning curve for sure. But I, I, I think I'm better. I'm getting better at it, at least. Jill Brook: So what were you doing in the year of your life before POTS entered? What did that look like? Caitlyn: So I was just freshly out of college about a year, year and a half out of college. So I had started teaching right away. And the days were very busy, keeping up with nine and 10 year olds all day. And then I would go home and do a lot of lesson planning. So I just felt like I was always on the go with [00:02:00] my job. And when I was in college, I taught group fitness classes. So even though once I graduated, I didn't teach those classes anymore, I still was very active. I joined a kettlebell gym that wasn't too far from my school, and so a few times a week I would go and work out after school, and then I would make sure to prioritize that on the weekends. And so yeah, I was just a busy teacher staying active and in the minimal free time I had hanging out with friends too. So yeah, on the go. Jill Brook: Yeah. You know, it's funny because I too was I was a step aerobics instructor. A regular aerobics instructor and then a Zumba instructor when the Zumba craze came along. Caitlyn: I love that. I took some Zumba classes in college. I taught weightlifting classes, so it was like the body pump classes. And I look back now and I'm like, I have no idea [00:03:00] how I did that, especially as a college student. I would teach the 5:30 AM class and I'm not a morning person, especially now, but I would get up and teach it for an hour and then get my little breakfast on the way back to my dorm and then fall back to sleep. College life, you know? Jill Brook: A testament to your energy level. Okay, so then what happened? Like how did POTS enter your life? Caitlyn: So I, like I said, I was early into my second year of teaching and everything was going really well, and I distinctly remember about a week prior to getting sick initially. My husband and I at the time, we were still dating and he was freshly into the medical school game. So we had this awesome gala that we went to. We got all dressed up, we went into the city, we got to hang out and just enjoy the nightlife of the city. And I remember thinking, wow, this is so much fun. And just a mere few days later [00:04:00] when everything changed. It was a Friday, we had PD at school. So it was just teachers that day and, I started feeling like I had a cold, maybe middle of that week to the end of the, the school week, but nothing major. So I just went about my day and then that morning I started to feel dizzy, but I just shook it off. I was like, I'm probably just over extended from this week. And so, we broke for lunch and a friend of mine, we went out to lunch, and came back to school, and I had mentioned something in passing like, oh, I don't, I don't know, I'm kind of feeling dizzy, but I'm sure it's just maybe I need to eat something and hydrate. So then when we came back from lunch, we went to a meeting with other teachers, and administrators were speaking, and it was the strangest thing, like the dizziness came back. I sat down and all of a sudden tunnel vision comes in. My heart rate skyrockets. Like [00:05:00] things I had never experienced before. I could feel my heart pounding outta my chest, and I knew something was really wrong at that point. So at the time I texted my principal. I didn't wanna make a scene. I was like, I need to get out of this meeting. So he saw it right away. And him and I, I don't even remember how I got out of that meeting. I, we just walked so fast down the hallway and got to the main office and he called 9 1 1 because he is like, I don't know what's going on, but you do not seem good. So I went to the hospital, took an ambulance there, and they questioned, you know, is anything stressful going on? Which at the time, really, no. I was actually enjoying a day just with teachers and getting planning done. And so then I went to the hospital and they did all sorts of tests and they said, you know, we think that it's probably just a virus that you have, and sometimes your heart rate can spike when you're sick. So it's probably just the start of something. And at the time I'm like, yeah, it [00:06:00] kind of felt like I was getting a cold. So I guess maybe that's all it is. But then I went home that night and I was never the same. Like even just waking up the next morning. I had no energy. I had no appetite. And in the months that followed, I saw so many different doctors, couple different cardiologists, primary care doctors, nobody had an answer other than, oh, you probably just had a virus, and that's why your body is acting like this. It even took a few months just for me to get diagnosed with mono, which we found out was the initial virus that I had. Jill Brook: Okay. And so when they finally did figure out what was wrong with you, how much help did you get from the various treatments or things that they had to, to recommend? Caitlyn: So it took a few months for them to come to mono and they said, you know, it's not an active infection at this point, but that's probably [00:07:00] what you had. They put me on a beta blocker pretty much right away. I wouldn't say it was at the emergency room the first time, but I went to a couple different cardiologists and they all agreed that your, your heart rate is really high and we're gonna get it under control with the beta blocker. So I would say the beta blocker was the most intervention that I had, and even by the summer, so that was February that I originally got sick, and by the summer I still wasn't quite feeling myself. It probably took a good six to seven months to feel somewhat back to my regular energy levels. I would wean myself off of the beta blocker when it felt like, oh, I don't need this anymore. But then from there, it took a whole two more years to find out that POTS was my long term chronic diagnosis. Jill Brook: So did you miss work during [00:08:00] all of that or did you somehow make it through? Caitlyn: So originally I did miss about a week of work, I'd say right out the gate. I ended up in the hospital a few days after the original ER visit because I did a follow up with my primary. They wanted to rule out some other things. They wanted to make sure that other scary things weren't going on, and they said, you know, the quickest way to get these tests done is to go back to the hospital. And so because of that, and because I couldn't even get out of bed, I did miss a week right away. But then the following month, it was half days. I would try to work, I would leave early, then I would have some days in there where I couldn't go at all. It was, I mean, my principal at the time, he was so supportive and he really just wanted me to know that my health was what was most important, but especially as a new teacher, I just couldn't, it's like I couldn't even justify taking that time. But I did miss a good amount of work, but I did manage to make it to [00:09:00] the summer, and I just knew that was my end goal. Like let me make it to the summer so I get a break. Jill Brook: So how are you doing now? How functional are you? Are you teaching exercise classes where, how is your energy? How functional are you? Caitlyn: It's been a rollercoaster of a journey. So I got my POTS diagnosis in officially in 2022. 'Cause I got sick right before COVID. It was like February, 2020. And so, when I got that diagnosis, I definitely felt better that I had answers, but I still didn't really have any doctors that seemed to know enough about it to give me, I guess what I'm trying to say is they didn't know exactly other than the routine salt, hydration, rest, and exercise. They didn't have anything that helped me. I did feel significantly better though about a year after that when I got into physical therapy. But it's just been trial and error because couple months [00:10:00] I'll be okay, and then there'll be a flare that sends me into the hospital for a few days, like this past fall. I had my son last year and then about six months later, I just feel like with all the hormone changes and the weather changes and the October slide, and I had thyroid issues postpartum too, so everything sort of combusted and that was the worst my POTS has ever been. I was fainting multiple times a day, every day. I was in the hospital for about three or four days, but I can say that since then the last month or two months has been manageable. I've been able to exercise more. I wouldn't say it's teaching fitness class level, but I've definitely taken what I've learned from physical therapy. I have medications that I found that have really worked well for my body, and when I get that right combination, I feel like I [00:11:00] am able to get back into, I've been running a little bit more lately, doing a little bit more of the kettlebell workouts, just modified. So I'm just grateful for how I feel right now. But I think a lot of POTS patients can understand the hesitation of even saying that, thinking like, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Jill Brook: Yeah, for sure. Well, so tell us about this book. What made you decide to write a book? Caitlyn: Yes. So a few years ago, actually, after I got my POTS diagnosis, I was on social media trying to find different pages that I could connect with, and I came across a blog that was all about different kinds of dysautonomia and they were looking for writers. So a few years ago I thought, oh, I like to write. That's something that I've always enjoyed. I ended up writing a short blog post for them, and I thought, wow, that's super cool way to share my story. But then in this last [00:12:00] year I've had a very challenging year with my health. I've also had a lot of connections that close friends and, and who unfortunately I, I've lost those relationships because of my POTS and it getting so out of control. I was sort of made to feel like other people didn't want to have that responsibility of me and that I was a burden to them. And so that was really heartbreaking for me. So I decided to turn to, well, let me just write things down. That made me feel better before. I found that therapeutic. So it just became a routine of, with no intentions of a book, let me just, once the baby's in bed, everybody's settled at night when I feel the best. Let me just get on my computer and jot down what I'm thinking. And so as I started to get down different stories, I thought, you know what? Actually, this [00:13:00] is probably something that other people would wanna hear too, because I bet I'm not alone in these experiences. So I decided, you know what, I'm gonna set a new goal for myself and that's gonna be figure out how do I publish a book. So I looked into it, I looked at all different options of ways you can self-publish, and then I just hit the ground running. I'm really excited about it. It's, it's called Not My Problem, Life with Chronic Illness, Being Dismissed and How to Take Back Your Strength. So what I love about it is it's a 10 chapter memoir of different experiences I've had, not just losing connections to POTS, which I think is something that isn't talked about as much. Like we know the physical side of it, but the emotional side is so important. But I write stories in every chapter just focusing on the physical toll, the mental toll, the emotional toll, and then ultimately in the end, what I've had to learn [00:14:00] is how can I take back control of the cards I've been dealt. Because when you're in those flares, and it seems like you don't even know which way is up, because your health is just so out of control, it just feels like you can't do anything for yourself to make any progress. So I thought this is gonna be a good way for me to figure out how I can take back my own strength and share it with other people too. The other thing that I like about it is I decided it's not just my story to share. I'd love other people to be able to write down their own stories. So I made part of it a little reflection journal with some questions that I wish that I had early in my diagnosis. But honestly, through the whole five years that I've lived with POTS, I just wish I had these questions to truly sit and recognize how, how powerful I can be despite what I'm going through. Jill Brook: That's so interesting. Do you mind giving us [00:15:00] like an example of one of them? Caitlyn: Oh, sure. Let's see. So this one is about reclaiming your mental and emotional health. So this one says, even when it feels tough, how have you cultivated mental strength during your illness? What practices or shifts in mindset have helped you stay focused, hopeful, and positive on the hardest days? Because I know for me, it's like when I'm in those flares, it is so hard to even think of anything positive and how can I shift my mindset. So that's just one example, but I'm really excited about it. I, I, I'm hoping to reach a lot of people who can just feel like, okay, I have never been alone in this journey. I mean, I was lucky enough, I have one of my best friends who I've known since high school, she has POTS. She got diagnosed when we were in high school, I believe, and I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for [00:16:00] her. But she's been someone that I have direct access to, to talk to about what I'm going through and seeing if she has similar feelings and experiences, but my hope is just reaching people to make them feel like, Hey, I can be someone for you too, even if it's through the pages of my book. Jill Brook: Oh, that's so nice. That's great. So you had mentioned, you know, questions that you wish you'd had sooner. Is there any other thing like information or insights you wish you had known sooner in your journey? Caitlyn: There's definitely a couple things I wish I had known about. My physical therapist has been awesome. I didn't realize when doctors say, oh, just exercise, I'm thinking, okay, I am gonna do the high intensity workouts that I used to do, and that never led to anything good. It would just lay me in bed for days. So I guess I wish in the beginning of my diagnosis that my doctors would've told me, you know, these sort of [00:17:00] exercises would be better for you if you're laying down, if you're seated, or even if you can find a physical therapist who can help you, I'm lucky enough to have a physical therapist that I would see online and she has POTS so she understands it. But I wish that I knew the impact of that, the specific kind of exercise you need to do in order to help your circulation. Jill Brook: I feel like I've talked to enough POTS patients now that I swear we are high achievers. If I was gonna generalize, I know, I know everyone's different, but it does kind of seem like there's that trend and so it doesn't surprise me at all that if someone says to you like, just go exercise, that you are thinking of a totally higher, more intense level than what they're thinking. And, and the reason I'm laughing is because when I was a nutritionist, this would happen all the time where somebody's doctor would tell them, well, you need to drink more. You need to drink a lot. And the doctor meant [00:18:00] like two to three liters a day. That's what the expert consensus does. But what the patient would hear is, well, I'm gonna drink as much as possible. And I would talk to people who were literally drinking like 14 liters a day and thinking it was still not enough. And so I think a message to doctors would be, Hey, hey, realize the population that you're talking to. Caitlyn: Absolutely. Yes. I am a hundred percent with you. I'm a perfectionist to a fault too. So I'm like, okay, I, yeah, that high achiever. I'm gonna try to do the best thing I can and I'm gonna push myself. And we realize that sometimes we're pushing ourselves in the wrong ways. So I definitely wish I had known about that piece. I think I also just wish that earlier on I felt more comfortable advocating for myself and just realizing the importance of speaking up. Because it's a lot easier to just weigh the discomfort of, well, I'll just hide away [00:19:00] and I'm not gonna say what I'm going through because it's gonna be too much for other people. Just at my job, you know, being a teacher, it's really hard to be on your feet all day when you have POTS, it's like the worst possible position to be in. So I guess I, earlier on, I wish I just had that confidence to know like, you are doing what's best for you. And I've had to learn that over the years is there's nothing wrong with asking for help when it's how you need to function every single day. So, and lastly, I guess I just, I wish that the emotional and mental piece was talked about more and I definitely see it out there. I have an Instagram page for POTS and I follow plenty of accounts who do mention it as a small piece, but I think that's a piece that gets often overlooked. It's not, healthcare professionals aren't doing it on purpose, and people that we're connected to don't do it on purpose. But I just think that the weight that we feel because of [00:20:00] our diagnosis and the, at least for me, the extent to which I don't wanna be a burden on other people has weighed very heavily on me. Then when you have those people that you think you can count on, tell you that you're too much and that they don't want you to be a problem for them, that validates your worst fears. So I guess it's the strength in talking to other people who are going through the same experience and knowing that you can't control what other people think and you can't control how other people interpret your condition. But I hope that that message is, is loud and clear, and that I'm here as a resource for people too. Because I, I just wanna help. I just want people to feel connected and less alone. Jill Brook: Oh, that's so nice. So, so did somebody, can I just ask like, so, it was a friend who just outright said, you are too much, you're a burden. Because I feel like a lot of people might feel that way and they [00:21:00] might act that way and they might, you know, kind of let a relationship die, but you don't hear about it that often, that someone just outright says it to your face. Caitlyn: Yeah. Yeah, I I, I had a, a friendship in my life who, this person was extremely supportive of me for many, many years, and I can understand both sides of it when, you know, you know somebody who has a health condition and that when you're not living it, witnessing it is very scary. And being in a position where you feel like you have to make decisions for someone who has passed out or maybe can't ask for help for themselves. I, I understand the weight of that a hundred percent. Like I validated that a lot. But it got to the point where like I was just told, I need to take a step back from your health and this is too much for me. Essentially your, you are too much for me and I need to focus on myself and I need to focus on [00:22:00] my life. And yeah, it was hurtful. And I, I think this is where this book comes. It's a reminder for myself. I wrote it. I'm, I'm constantly going back and rereading it to edit it, but it's a message to myself to remind myself that I'm worth more than maybe the people who, who can't handle the situation. And I'm not, there's no blame there, it's just, yeah, I was pretty much told by a few people that I was a problem for them with my health. Jill Brook: I'm so sorry. Yeah. Caitlyn: I think it just makes you focus on the connections that you have that don't make you feel that way. Because my independence is the most important thing that that's in my life and I want to be able to do everything for myself. But there have been plenty of times over the past five years where I've been so sick that I couldn't drive or, you know, I couldn't finish my work day or I couldn't even take care of my own son. That was [00:23:00] at its worst, I couldn't even pick my son up out of his crib in the middle of the night. So it's, it's heartbreaking when people really highlight like, oh yeah, all those things that you're relying on other people for, well, that's too much for me, so have a good life. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. Jill Brook: Yeah. Yeah. And, and what constructive coping methods to write about it and to share and connect with other people. But I wanted to ask about your teaching now. Do you stand at the front of a class all day now? Caitlyn: So over the years I've learned, I have a few different rolling chairs around the room. So I've got one at my desk and. One that sort of travels with me wherever I go. So I would say I split it standing and sitting is probably about 50 50. But I've gotten a lot better at learning to listen to my body. And on the days where I go in and I'm already like, eh, it's [00:24:00] not feeling like a great day. I just know, okay, I need to sit more, and that's okay. Like I think what I've realized too is your students, when they're in your classroom, you form the foundation of what it looks like to be in that learning community. So if you go in and you sit more than maybe their last teacher did, that's just, they're used to what you do. It's not a comparison thing. So I do sit more than I used to, which is good. And it's better anyway 'cause I get on the kids level and we can work together on whatever the activities they're doing. Jill Brook: So I have to laugh because I've heard a lot of teachers say before, like teachers who do not have POTS, that one challenge of being a teacher is that you do not get time to go pee. And as a POTS patient, I know that there's times when I feel like I've got pee every 15 minutes. What do you do? Caitlyn: Yeah. Yes, I know. Well, that was part of my accommodations request with my school was [00:25:00] I needed access to, to hydration and snacks and medication. Like I just needed to be able to have all that stuff with me, access to sitting down and then bathroom breaks. And I definitely got some pushback at first of like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I have to hydrate so much more that I, you know, I'm like, I need access to that. So I, there's plenty of people in the building who know that if I need something, I can just text them and they'll stop by and they'll take over for me so that I can use the bathroom. But you're so right. It's a job where you can never pee and you can never think for yourself because you've got 25 kids asking you 700 questions at the same time. You're like the brain fog when that was going on, I'm like, I don't know how to sort all these questions out. But I love, I love my kids and I do love what I do, so it makes it worth it. Jill Brook: Do you feel like this whole experience has changed you at all as a person? Caitlyn: I, I absolutely [00:26:00] think it has. I think growing up I was always a, I cared, I cared so much, and I would let people walk all over me. I remember my mom very specifically as a kid when I was in elementary school saying, you gotta grow thicker skin. You can't let people walk all over you. Like it's okay to be nice, but you have to protect yourself. And nothing, nothing brings that on more than when you are in a chronic health condition. And you have to realize like you need to take care of yourself and you have to stand up for what is best for you. And that has included plenty of uncomfortable conversations with people. And I try to approach it understanding their perspective and bringing my perspective. And I try, I'm a pretty levelheaded, calm person. So I don't approach it in any aggressive way, but I just have learned that what's best for me, I've gotta stand up for myself. And that might be other people might [00:27:00] see it as confrontation, as me talking to them. But I just think it's me letting them know what my situation is and making sure that I get what I need so that I can function. And there's nothing wrong with that. So I think the guilt has not been as heavy as I've gone on and kind of gone through more of those experiences. Jill Brook: Oh good. Are you up for a speed round? If we just ask you to say the first word that comes to your mind. Caitlyn: Sure. Jill Brook: What's your favorite way to get salt? Caitlyn: Potato chips. Jill Brook: What is the drink you find the most hydrating? Caitlyn: Gatorade. Jill Brook: What is your favorite time of the day and why? Caitlyn: Probably the nighttime. I feel like by the early evening, my medications that I've taken throughout the day have all finally settled. Everything feels more balanced. It's not the morning, which I know is a very common, there's a common hatred of the [00:28:00] mornings from us POTSies. But I think everything has kicked in and I've been hydrated, I've gotten my meals in, and like I've gotten my movement in by that point. So when I can finally just sit and enjoy it. And I get to play with my, my son at in the evening time too, so. Jill Brook: What is one word that describes what it's like to live with a chronic illness? Caitlyn: Hmm. I would say uncertain. Jill Brook: What is some good advice anybody ever gave you? Caitlyn: I've heard a lot that you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else. And I think that's really true. Being in the profession I'm in and now having a family of my own, I, I realize how true that is. Jill Brook: What is something small or inexpensive that brings you comfort or joy? Caitlyn: Oh, well, I, my first answer was gonna be my son, 'cause he's small, but he's expensive. Those babies. My husband and I love reality television, so [00:29:00] we, we, that brings us a lot of joy in our free time. Jill Brook: Do you have a favorite show to recommend? Caitlyn: Below Deck. We love it. Jill Brook: Oh, hadn't heard of that one. Okay. Caitlyn: It's awesome. Jill Brook: Go on my list. Who is somebody that you admire? Caitlyn: I would say I really admire my best friend who has POTS. She has done so much advocating for just education about POTS. That's how I knew about it. She also has a 5K race that she does locally. And it's the 10th year already this, this summer. So I think I admire her, you know, spreading the word and, and coordinating such involved events and just more research for, for POTS. And she's, she's awesome. She's what inspires me to do what I do. Jill Brook: Oh, fantastic. What is something that you are proud of? Caitlyn: I am definitely proud of, of this book. I'm super excited about it. I didn't think [00:30:00] that this was gonna be the outcome when I first started, but I just, I'm really happy with when you get that first proof in the mail and you see your words, just even on paper, you know, with the cool hard back cover, you're like, this is pretty awesome. Jill Brook: Awesome. What is the toughest thing about POTS? Caitlyn: I definitely think it's that emotional piece. The physical piece for sure, but the emotional piece of, of not feeling like you're too much on other people feeling like a burden is, is really hard. Jill Brook: Do you have any tricks to get energy when you need it? Caitlyn: I would say the right exercise has helped me with my energy. I also am a coffee drinker, but I've had to learn half caf is how I have to go, 'cause anything else makes my heart race. Jill Brook: Do you have any little tips or tricks to help you fall asleep? Caitlyn: I actually love listening to podcasts to fall asleep, which I meant to say, I meant to say this earlier, but I wanna shout out your podcast because [00:31:00] I went back when I had not been diagnosed yet, and I was two years into all my symptoms. My best friend said Cait, this is not normal. Like you, you have to look into this. It, it could be POTS. And so she starts telling me about it, me being like, I have to know all the information. So I go out on the internet, I find this podcast and I start listening and I was listening to other people share their stories and I was just like, I'm convinced that this is what I have. So, yeah. So it's a cool full circle moment to be here. Jill Brook: Yeah. Circle of life. Okay. What is a gift that you would give to every single POTS patient on earth if you had infinite funds? Caitlyn: Um, I would say like a smartwatch of some sort, like a tracking device. Just so you can keep your, your health stats right, right with you. Jill Brook: What is something you're grateful for? Caitlyn: I'm grateful for my family. My husband, my son, my, [00:32:00] you know, in-laws and parents, but also my chosen family. My, my closest friends are so important to me, and like I mentioned earlier, they've been by my side through thick and thin and never make me feel like a problem. So I, they're super supportive. Jill Brook: Okay. Last couple questions. Have you ever had to sit down or lie down in a weird place because of POTS and. And if so, where's the weirdest? Caitlyn: Yes, I definitely have. I would say the weirdest place has been, and probably the grossest place, was an elementary school bathroom stall. There was a group of teachers that did a workout program after school. I was like, okay, that sounds fun. Like a fun way to connect with everybody. So I went and I started feeling so lightheaded, so dizzy. I'm like, uhoh, this is not good. And then I'm feeling nauseous. So I went to the bathroom and I was in like the biggest stall and I just had to sit on the floor. I was like, this is not gonna end well if I [00:33:00] don't sit down. So probably that. Yeah. Jill Brook: What do you wish more people understood about POTS? Caitlyn: I think, I wish they understood that it's, you know, and not to repeat myself, but it's more than just a physical toll that it takes on you. And I guess I just wish there was more education on, on the whole picture when you went and you got diagnosed with it. Just, you know, maybe given resources for all of those aspects of your life. Jill Brook: Yeah. Okay. And last question. Where can people find your book? Caitlyn: Oh yes. So I have currently, I have my POTS Instagram account. It's called Post for POTS. I'm posting different quotes from it and I just dropped the cover so people could see it there. It'll be available June 24th on Amazon for purchase. So I have a paperback version and hardcover. The hardcover is gonna have 10% of each book purchase is gonna be [00:34:00] donated to dysautonomia research. So I've got two options there from Amazon and then also I recorded an audio book version of it too, 'cause I'm an audio book person. So that will be available on pretty much any platform that you listen to audio books, so Spotify, Audible, Apple Books. Lots of options. Yeah. Jill Brook: Wonderful. Well, we'll put a link in the show notes to make it easy for people to find, and congratulations on doing that, and way to make some lemonade out of all your lemons. Caitlyn: Yes, I, I try. And thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I was so excited because I actually have been wanting to do this for a long time. I love, just hoping to reach other people and make them feel like they have, have resources. Jill Brook: Oh, yay. I love this community. Everybody's so warm and so helpful, and thank you for being that way. What a silver lining to [00:35:00] being in this club that none of us would choose to be in. Well, Caitlyn, thank you for sharing your story and your insights. We appreciate it so much and I know that everybody listening is wishing you all the best going forward. Okay, listeners, we hope you enjoyed today's conversation. We'll be back again next week, but until then, thank you for listening, remember you're not alone, and please join us again soon.